BAMF Ticket Survey Results

Posted On: April 23, 2014

*Scroll down to see survey results*

Hello Lovelies,

The board has collected and reviewed the results of their recent survey regarding complimentary tickets for BAMF medical volunteers who work on burn nights. After much discussion and deliberation, the board has voted to approve the request from BAMF for 20 donated tickets from Apo org. These tickets will be offered in a tiered ticketing system to only burn shift volunteers and only if as a last choice. Free tickets will not be offered next year.

This was a difficult decision that was made after extensive discussions in online meetings and email conversations. Regardless of their personal opinions, the board feels that it is in the best interest of the event to provide BAMF with complimentary tickets as a recruitment tool this year. The board solicited community feedback because they recognize the potential far-reaching impact of this decision and they wanted to know how the community felt about it. In the interest of transparency, the board chose to tell the community that this option was on the table and to give everybody an opportunity to discuss the options and voice their opinion before they made their decision.

We would like to offer one point of clarification. There were many survey responses suggesting that BAMF volunteers be given half-price tickets rather than full complimentary tickets. Many BAMF volunteers (as well as all Ignition members and Red Shirts) already get $50 tickets and that option was always available to BAMF. The cost to Apogaea on the infographic was listed as $1300 because that is the difference between a $50 Ignition ticket and a full price ticket.

Thank you all for your thoughtful discussion and suggestions on this difficult issue. If you would like to volunteer for BAMF, you can find more information in the blog post BAMF Needs You!

Stay safe and Flame on,

Art

BAMF ticket survey responses

Number of responses: 153 (7% of the 2014 population by ticket sales)
(All percents are rounded to the nearest whole number)

Did you understand the infographic on BAMF comp tickets?

Do you support providing 20 complimentary BAMF tickets for Apogeaea 2014: 10 for Friday night and 10 for Saturday night?

For those who had been helped by BAMF, the responses were:
52% Yes
27% No
17% I trust BAMF and the board to decide
5% I do not have enough information

For those who had not been helped by BAMF, the responses were:
61% Yes
21% No
14% I trust BAMF and the board to decide
5% I do not have enough information

What is the primary reason for your answer to the previous question? (click to expand)

[expand title=”From those who answered: I do not have enough information”]

Who are these BAMF volunteers who don’t care enough about the event to pay the $50 for a normal volunteer ticket?! I question if I really want someone at the event who is only there on account of a free ticket. I totally get BAMF’s challenge but I’m immediately suspicious of the volunteers this would bring in.
Do we need 10 such people? I don’t know.
The argument for doing this seems good, however, I’m concerned about the impact of this very reactive decision. Are we going to get another request like this if Rangers start having trouble filling spots next year? What if DPW can’t recruit people for work weekend and the land isn’t ready as required by the land owner? This decision seems like one that shouldn’t have been so last minute.
I think people who work burn night and after burn shifts could get a ticket for NEXT year, vs. for this same year. If it is modeled after BM then do it that way which is how BM does it.Otherwise, I am interested to know what the medical qualifications of said people are/will be. I think there should be a formal ‘vetting’ process and not just one person deciding who should get those tickets. There should be a committee so that all those tickets don’t go to one “friend group” which has the potential for exclusivity vs. inclusiveness.

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[expand title = “From those who answered: I trust BAMF and the board to make this decision”]

I do not like the idea of free tickets. I support giving the lead what he needs to fill his positions. I ONLY support giving these tickets out if they are used as a last resort and we try to fill the spots first. This is a VERY DANGEROUS slippery slope situation.
I do not think the tickets are necessary, but if BAMF feels they are – I support them.
BAMF and the board have the most info and have discused the optiona I know.
There seems to be a pushback from the community against free tickets to anyone, which is understandable, yet the infographic seems pretty convincing that free tickets will fill the positions needed at the least cost. I trust the board and BAMF to do what is necessary regardless of popularity, and I think that the survey is a nice gesture, but maybe a waste of time. Make the responsible choice, we know safety is important.
BAMF for anxiety attacks. Something that could send people to the hospital to get psychiatric evaluation instead gets handled by experienced people they might know well. I really wouldn’t want most psych issues handled by outsiders who aren’t in tune with the event. For physical issues, I also trust our community more than I would trust a paid ambulance company. They work hard shifts, and they do awesome work.
Really important to adequately staff burn nights with burner imo, but it does set kinda a questionable precedent. Ideally, the situation could be resolved without using free tickets, but that may not be possible.
I don’t feel strongly on the subject.
I trust BAMF and the board to decide. Safety is important. Would a discounted ticket such as the Board and Ignition get work? If so, it might quell some of the community complaining (can’t make everyone happy). If not, do what is needed to protect us ant the community.
Seems like a slippery slope, but I trust it is not a decision that will be made lightly. Perhaps it is also time to think about reining in the growth to a more “organically sustainable” level.
If it helps recruit medical professionals I’m for it. I am a BAMF volunteer, I don’t mind paying for my ticket. I do wish the shifts were not so long. If the community didn’t need medical professionals I would not volunteer in this role, I love what I do, but honestly would be nice to have a total break from that level of responsibility at APO. The community however and it’s needs mean more to me than my need for a break. I do volunteer in other roles, which I enjoy also.
I think the board needs to define exactly what support is needed at the event, as it’s not clear that staffing with volunteers is enough to meet our permit and insurance requirements. This is the most critical question.
I believe the board understands that if volunteer coverage does meet our permit requirements, yet we can’t staff the event with volunteers, that APO must be ready bear the cost of hiring professionals to staff it (whether free tickets are used as a carrot or not).
It would not be acceptable to me to have senior BAMF members forced to cover difficult shifts at the last minute.
Because that’s how this shits supposed to work. Authority to decide this shit rests with BAMF leaders and the board. Why am I being dragged into this?
I think the correct solution is to reduce the rate of growth for the event. The event shouldn’t be so large that we can’t staff it with volunteers, on a simple and egalitarian level.
~1,600 was a nice size, perhaps we shouldn’t have expanded so fast, with these kinds of BAMF staffing issues! I sincerely hope that we don’t move to 2,500+ plus next year, while we’re having trouble with volunteer staffing. Grow slower!
I trust BAMF and the board can sort this out smartly
I’ve been in your position. I know that you will never please everyone. I know that you have thought about this from more angles than I have (or care to).
Medical and safety is a vital part of the infrastructure and is a must have expense for the event. It’s not optional, it’s required. We don’t ask for insurance underwriters to “volunteer” their insurance coverage, or try to source portapotties from a community member who will volunteer to deliver them, for example. If we can cover safety needs with volunteers, that is the best solution of course, but I think it’s important to be prepared to subsidize as needed to support this key part of holding an event. Just because something has always been done a certain way, don’t let that trap you into not trying something new if it’s needed.
I pay for my Apo ticket every year and if I had the medical schooling required k would volunteer.. But I do not. It’s a cool idea to offer training a for people who would like to meet your required knowlage level for medical attention. If you don’t offer one or want to pay, direct apogaeans to places to do offer a quick certification. Good info for burners to know regardless.

[/expand]
[expand title=”From those who answered ‘No'”]

I think it’s important that we don’t give away tickets to preserve the integrity and atmosphere of our event. I do believe it will make a difference and that’s something I just don’t want to see happen.
I think everyone brings something special to the event and volunteering shouldn’t turn into paid gigs. Volunteering (giving freely) is FUN!
That is a lot of free tickets…. I would totally support giving less tickets! Five per shift? 7 even… but going from no free tickets ever to 20 tickets? I say do it, these are hard shifts and such but do we reallllllyyyy need 20???
I support 1/2 price tickets for BAMF volunteers that are only working 1 shift. Yes I understand burn nights are difficult to staff. Rangers work just as hard and tend to put in more hours and they don’t get free tickets. I also think that we need to stop raising the population so much each year. Raise the population then leave it for 1-2 years then raise again.
I feel that everyone at the event should purchase a ticket for the event. Burners that volunteer at the ignition level and above should be offered discounted tickets. If we are trying to get additional burner paramedics from other parts of the country to fill our ranks, a free ticket only goes so far. Providing a discounted ticket, commissary, on site services etc would be farm more enticing that just a free ticket to the event. Once again, every one that attends the event should buy a ticket.
The paid services route to support BAMF on burn night may be more expensive but is more in line with our values.
I don’t support that until the 5 possible volunteers who have not even been responded to are contacted.
It undermines the values of our community, creates an “us” vs. ” them” situation. It polarizes our event into people who are more valued than other volunteers. We have the ability to solve problems within our community, without throwing money at problems, I think we can do better.
I don’t believe all avenues to address the staffing problem have been sufficiently explored.
this is a sign we have more spectators than participants. the event is growing too quickly. find natural ways to bring volunteer interest up to tickets-sold level, or stop selling more tickets than can be safely cared for. recognize an obvious sign when you see it. growth is becoming irresponsible and reckless.
It goes against the philosophies that I and BM stand for.
I Give ALOT of my time to this event certainly more than 8 hours. I don’t want a free ticket but I don’t think that someone should get a free ticket for working 8 hours…
At this time, you haven’t given me enough information to make the case convincing, nor have you structured the program or safeguards around it in a way that I think fosters the right values in this community.
The infographic says that 75% of volunteers are trained at an EMT level or above. It does not provide any insight into how many people trained at that level are needed, vs. those trained at a CPR/BLS/First aid level. Thus, I don’t know if we’re trying to staff EMTs and above, or whether we are also seeing a shortfall in people with lesser qualifications.
Additionally, I don’t know how many more of those BAMF volunteers we are needing, and how much is due to the increased population and how much is due to the additional burn.
I *might* eventually be convinced to support free tickets for EMT and higher levels, but I absolutely will not support it simply for CPR/BLS/First aid. Those are easy enough for anyone to take, and if we can’t get enough people to do it and volunteer, then we have grown the event too fast and need to scale it down.
Additionally, I believe not enough has been done to explore other reasons people might not be signing up. A very simple example is shift length – if shifts were 4 hours, or possibly even 6, I’d be willing to go out and renew my certifications (I’m at the lower level, not an EMT) to participate and perhaps even take on multiple shifts. But there’s no way I’m doing 8-hour shifts.
EMTs and medical staff may well be used to even longer shifts in their day to day professional lives, but that doesn’t mean they want to put in the same long shifts at a recreational event.
Not enough exploration of other ideas.
tldr
the fact that bamf has not placed a call to our community is bad. when they did not do that, they were failing in there duty. to reward failure with free tickets is wrong.
No free tickets
I understand the need but feel our bet efforts are directed at finding another way to staff shifts. The solution of just spending money solves nothing. The problem still exists. Without the funds and tickiets but with strong community support I believe that bamf will step forward and solve this issue.
It will happen again next year, why set a precedent?
I’m not sure where they get their math, but 20 free tickets with a face value of $115 is $2300, not $1300 as they are miss-leading. Also what is not represented here is a similar graph showing the drastic increase of free tickets given away in the future now that the gate is open.
75% EMT’s??!! I have a strong feeling that they are turning away volunteers that are only CPR qualified (which is enough) and holding out for EMT’s. I have heard MANY reports of CPR volunteers never getting a return email.
These tickets will be handed out to people based more on popularity than actual skill.
This is a short term solution to a long term problem. Find a long term solution.
It’s a participatory event. We all add something to the event, and it would be a bad precedent to provide complementary tickets to one group. The Board works hard. The rangers work hard. DPW works hard. Artists work hard. A lot of people work hard to make this event run. They will all want free tickets. Either BAMF people want to participate or they don’t.
Though I understand the importance of trained medical professionals, BAMF is nothing more then any other volunteer position. The people who fill those positions get my respect as much as the people who build the effigy. But what if no one wanted to build the effigy, are we going to pay people to build it. NO.
People will volunteer, its the nature of the event. If they do not, then guess what…we scale back the event OR no event. I am willing to accept that.
Nice flashy graphic. But it proposes a short term solution to a long term problem and that solution will cause even more problems later.
It’s missing the point. The event should not be allow to grow past what the volunteer infrastructure can handle. I know this is a mute point for this year. The decision has been made without consultation or follow through on the point of linking tickets to volunteering.
If there isn’t enough BAMF for two burn nights, then there shouldn’t be two burn nights. Free tickets are not the reason medical people are going to help. It sets a precedent that will be hard to undo.
History. Philosophy of the event.
There are many volunteers with various skills but $2300 is alot of money to prop up one department. Aren’t half priced tickets enough?
When one contribution is “special” and excluded from being participants first, it’s a slippery slope – who’s “special enough” to not be in the same class with everyone else. There are a lot of better ways to show love.
The premise of this environment is to contribute (time, money, etc.) for the good of the community while maintaining a basis of equanimity. I have participated on Ignition and I think discounted tickets are fair- bit free tickets can and will cause a skewed perception.
I feel we should offer half price tickets as do other vital departments. Some of the other departments jobs are even harder than BAMF, and just as necessary.
Why not give free tickets to those who busted ass for weeks to build the effigy? Or to Rangers. Or to Gate. Or to those who build theme camps? Apogaea is more than burning an effigy. It’s almost a week long event. Hard to fill doesn’t mean impossible to fill. Rather than deviating from very important long-standing ethos, try working harder and earlier in the Recruitment process
the graphic is simplistic and on the first review looks like it is designed to urge our community towards one set solution instead of a desire to find larger answers to ongoing problems of staffing in bamf.
this is not the first time bamf has experienced problematic results in staffing. rewarding the lackadaisical efforts to recruit are counterproductive and injurious to the larger efforts. it also flies in the face of many of the bedrock principles on which apo rests. do we destroy our ideals and ethics in a search for a solution that will need to be reapplied each year? I have been told by one bamf member that every single bamf person already gets a half price ticket. if this is in fact son, then you face graver problems than manning a few shifts during a burn night.
I would see the granting of free tickets to select troups and not all departments as the board failing in its fiduciary responsibility to our world and would sue
Apogaea proclaims to be volunteer driven. It more and more seems to be driven by the freely thrown promises of a free ticket vs. people just wanting to volunteer. I have personally come in contact with Rangers and BAMF ON SHIFT volunteers that were intoxicated/under influence. It might be time to consider emergency services being paid so that they are accountable and sober.

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[expand title = “From those who answered ‘Yes'”]

They are an intricate part of apo that helps keep the event running. They save lives and keep the costs of the event down. Rockbear stated it best, “If I skin my knee, I want someone I know to kiss my booboo.”
Would rather have a BAMF member watch my drunk ass recover than pay for an ambulance ride to DG. Ambulance rides are awesome, but only if you’re driving/riding shotgun.
Because it is ridiculous to me that it is even an issue. We need to staff these nights, and if this incentive is necessary, then of course it should be used. no big whoop. this community gets itself into too much of a tizzy over things that should be no big deal, over semantics . I fully trust Bastion, and if this is what he says he needs, then this is what he should have. If the community doesn’t want to grow the event then this wouldn’t be an issue. since it does it is. and can be dealt with simply and easily.
Medical shifts are hard, also the org does it this way
Everyone wants to have fun on burn nights, so getting people to work those nights is always tough. This is compounded by the fact that this is a critical area and one of the only areas where we are asking people to spend what would otherwise be some of the funnest nights of their vacation doing their day jobs. Personally, I don’t want to even think about my day job while at APO, much less do it. BAMF members’ day jobs are mostly doing similar things to their BAMF jobs, so we are really asking them to work their vacation. I know that a lot of other people’s job skills are used by them in their volunteer roles, but that usually doesn’t require them to work through the burn. Not having adequate medical staff available on the nights with the most parties and dangerous stuff happening is more than a bit scary to me.
Also, back at Happy Ass, didn’t we have to pay a security guard to watch the gate on burn night because everyone wanted to be at the burn?
Apogaea needs to have a safe environment for everyone. These are qualified personnel that as you stated have given many hours of their time to be able to take care of medical and fire issues for the event as a whole. It is a lot of responsibility and a lot of time at the actual event. 8 hours is a long shift, specially for what they do. I give a toast to those in many departments of Apogaea, but BAMF it’s hats off.
Talking to other people about various festivals it’s been said that most or all the others don’t have the medical staff on site that apo has and I support any means necessary to continue this
Medical Professionals with free time are hard to find.
It’s important to me that the person treating me and others is qualified and that I/we have confidence that I/we will be treated appropriatley and professionally if something happens.
Those volunteers are among the hardest working, and most valuable to keeping apo safe and functional. Give them some damn tickets!
I am on BAMF and we need the support.
Because Bastion is going to have problems filling these shifts. He was not in support of expanding participants or adding a burn night, precisely because of this. But the plans moved forward without his consideration. This is not a problem of his creation, but of the Boards. I think it is the Boards responsibility to recognize this and do whatever it takes to help him fix it. If the only option he sees is adding incentive, then I think the board should trust it and back him.
The members of BAMF support the entire event and keep the attendees safe. With all the hard work they put in while the rest of us play, a few free tickets seems like a paltry thank you.
Those are specialized skills that must be filled and I imagine impossible to fill otherwise. I feel many volunteers who have specialized skills should be offered free tickets.
It makes sense. Don’t want outsiders observing our debauchery.
I like numbers, and the numbers make sense.
Apogaea has remained a volunteer event and should continue to support the skills of their talented community.
The money makes sense. BAMF is an absolute necessity who’s majority is staffed by professionals with their professional credentials on the line. A free ticket is the least we can do to thank them. I know a lot of our participants volunteer their professional services, but there are very few situations where a volunteers professional licence could be revoked as a result of their good deed.Also, as a participant, it’s very important to me that my potential care provider actually CARES about me, understands our unique culture and has my best interests at heart.
As an EMT and firefighter, it is imperative to have competent, sober folks on duty during burns. 2013 Apo could have potentially been a crisis waiting to happen as towards the end of the weekend the few qualified staff working were pushed to exhaustion in some cases due to too few folks having to volunteer for more than their share of shifts. Also, I do not see free tickets as a cost — there are more than enough folks wanting to come to Apo so it should be suggested that you increase the saleable tickets by 20 to get the supposed “cost” back.
The health care industry is changing. Administration, MBA’s, Financial Officers and Lawyers have more say in your current care then Physicians, Nurse Practitioners, Physician Assistants, Nurses, Paramedics and EMT’s. This ethos has changed the culture within hospitals and ambulances. In the last few years, Hospital Administration have found that they can take advantage of the caring personalities of their health care providers and ask for more while at the same time taking away previous benefits.As an ICU nurse, I once managed 2 patients and received bonus and call back pay; now I manage 2-3 patients plus a student or resident and bonus and call back pay are no longer an option. Paramedics and EMT’s are the working lower class. Current working environments are overwhelming and Health Care Provider burnout is huge. Several of my co-workers are fascinated and like the idea of Apogaea and Burning Man, however, fewer and fewer want to sit in a tent while the party is happening all around them as they get to watch an alcoholic puck in a bucket, or the drama queen cries in the corner while coming off a bad trip.Health Care provider volunteer because they know they have a unique skill to offer, several feel obligated. Please don’t take advantage of our caring personalities so you can have a raging party in the woods.Respect and Appreciation. Health Care is a high burnout career which effects Health Care related companies/hospitals/venues all over.Companies exist to deal with nursing retention: http://www.nsinursingsolutions.com/Files/assets/library/retention-institute/NationalHealthcareRNRetentionReport2013.pdfStaffing Medical is difficult for everyone, government agencies track burnout rates and solutions yearly: http://dpeaflcio.org/wp-content/uploads/Safe-Staffing-Ratios-2013.pdf
It’s the best solution to the problem – problem being unsustained growth
Would rather have fellow Apogaeans volunteering their services than pay to hire an outside crew…that may be something we need to consider as the event continues to grow but I don’t see any reason that we can’t keep the event sustainable from within the community. BAMF volunteers do have way more extensive training outside of the event and their willingness to offer those specialized skills ought to be recognized!
Keeps the medical team in the community.
I think its a great way of keeping the apo community a safe environment without the need to hire an outside emt.
I have always been so impressed by the level of professionalism and quick response by BAMF and Rangers at Apo. I would not attend these burns if I didn’t feel totally confident that if the shit goes down, there will be qualified people to take care of it and FAST. It is totally worth my 62c to subsidize this, and I think that a free ticket is just a minimal carrot to encourage people to take those shifts. I believe we should also be providing lapdances and other naughty perks to these Rockstars.
I am a BAMF primary medical volunteer. I have no interest in working a burn night shift, and understand why those shifts are hard to fill. In the real world they pay medical professionals such as myself more (sometimes significantly more) to work night and holiday shifts. Burn nights are Apo’s holiday shifts, and if sweetening the pot by offering free tickets to those willing to work those shifts will help fill them, I’m all for it. I think it could help recruit volunteers who would otherwise not attend, whether it be due to lack of interest or funds.
I watched BAMF put out what would have been a forest fire in under 60 seconds last year. To hell with saying they helped a few people not waste money on an ambulance, they save all our asses in that moment.
I support BAMF, and with the growth this year this should be a no brainier.
As a community we should try to take care of ourselves without using outside resources.
BM has the same structure… working the medical/fire volunteer shifts – you get a free ticket
I’d rather BAMF than outsiders.
Apogaea already gifts 2 tickets for ticket design and theme – since that precedence already exists, I support more gift tickets for crucial roles such as BAMF. Eventually I would like this extended to other crucial roles such as Board Members, Officers and Rangers. I believe crucial roles requiring sobriety and carrying heavy responsibility should be gifted tickets to the event. I do not believe this will impact the ethos or financial integrity in a negative way but in fact will further enhance volunteerism.
keep it safe and cheap
B/c it would be hella more expensive to pay emts to be there whom also don’t understand how we practice medicine at Apo. Make them $10 tix if u have to.
I’ve been torn, but this seems like the first solution to creating another level of incentive to fill these tough shifts. I’m not confident this will actually help to fill the spots. The people who usually take on these kinds of shifts are type of people who would do it anyway. I think this is an experiment that will work or not. What happens if the donated tickets don’t actually help to fill the roles? He must’ve taken a poll to see who was willing to work and realized people weren’t down? What do the BAMF volunteers say?However, I trust that Bastion knows his crew, and if he thinks it’ll work, I’m down to support his judgement. Knowing him, I’m sure he has taken into consideration his team and it’s clear he has reached out to the community. I appreciate that he is adhering to the transparency towards which we aim.
This is a no-brainer to me. Why wouldn’t we?
Medical is a critical onsite primary function that without it would ultimately be the end of Apo.
I support many “comp” or discount tickets. You gotta take care of the people who make this event happen. Of course this is “everybody”… but I’m fine with our version of a meritocracy.
To not hire a private ambulance company
I’m a BAMF volunteer and I worked burn night last year. I was planning on doing the same this year. I really enjoyed my shift and I think it’s a great way to volunteer.
I trust Bastion and the Apogaea board to make well informed decisions.
If there is a need for an emergency tracheotomy I want it done by a medical professional not someone with a first aid card.
BAMF service has been amazing in the past; it seems foolish to change the system to bring in outside help.
I would feel safer and more comfortable with burners standing by. Also it’s cheaper and just makes more sense
As a veteran fest attendee, it is important to have the fire tenders. medical staff, etc present and sober. While hiring EMT’s would be a good idea, it will, in the long run, cost us more. A free ticket here and there for someone volunteering to staff these positions isn’t such a huge loss considering what could and probably would happen without them.
I understand that BAMF volunteers are harder to find due to their specialized training. I would prefer to bring new local people in the medical profession in to the Apogaea family by giving free tickets to people who otherwise might not come to the event, rather than hiring a paid outside crew.
they’re burners!
Fuck it, it’s just 20 tickets to help ensure that there isn’t a medical emergency that could undermine what Apo has built and become.
The cost benefit of comping a few tickets for CRITICAL volunteers positions outweighs the potential costs of outside support.
BAMF is a critical infrastructure requirement – and perhaps the most important role. The more we can take care of ourselves the better by keeping things in house. If the method to achieve this is providing complimentary tickets then I support it…even at the same cost. The fact that the cost is lower is just a nice benefit.
Understand the situation
These people work the hardest during the hours of the actual main event, but I think most people would prefer to be seen by certified medical Burners rather than hired outsiders.
I like the idea of burners treating burners. I like the idea of keeping it all in the community. I’m afraid that if we hire an outside medical service the “vibe” will change, and people might be afraid to seek medical attention if they are on drugs, afraid they might get in trouble, and then not seek medical attention that they need. I think keeping the medical team in-house burners, people will get the care they need.
They are essential to the event, use what ever tools necessary to fill out the staffing so we can all have an amazing and safe time.
If you hire an outside team of medical staff to come in to work the event you are not going to get that staff to buy tickets to the event. They would think that request was ludicrous. With an outside staff you would have to pay them to be here AND comp their entry. Either way you are talking about giving out free tickets, only now you are paying someone on top of their free entry. It makes more sense to give free tickets to the community members who are volunteering their time to the event. I also feel like this is like comparing apples to oranges with other volunteers since BAMF members require special qualifications.
cost effective and keeps the community in control rather than an outside source
Essential dept.
I would rather support getting more internal folks than ever contacting to the outside world. Seems like that just opens the for there to be public record of various levels of intoxication. Besides, what happens if that EMT rig had to take someone or? Then we have no medical!! That’s no good.
We cannot run a festival without medical. We’re all idiots out there! If medical says they need these tickets to ensure that we are all covered if we do something dumb, let’s let them have them!
I don’t get why it is that big a deal. So many other festivals give free tickets, incliding Burning Man. Why not Apo?
I support BAMF. If they need the tickets to fill critical roles then so be it . Safer for the community
I trust that if the BAMF lead says we need it, then we do.
It is an important philosophical point to remain fully staffed by volunteers. If the BAMF needs help staffing the big nights, then let’s help them! They are us.
Free tickets to work one shift seems like a little much. besides the 1/2 price ticket and all the swag we get is enough. Maybe if people have to do an extra shift on burn night then it makes sense. unless we have folks jumping into the fire, which the rangers should be on top of, there I don’t imagine there are more injuries on burn nights. People party hard all week and are just as likely to be hurt as any other night.
This is simple, our safety is NUMBER ONE when we are in the mountains at Apogaea. Period.
I believe that qualified medical help is necessary, but I think you could ge away with 10 tickets to cover both nights.
people get hurt. Burn Nights are party nights and I’d love to know the community is safe in the hands of trained professionals.
BAMF is critical to the event, and those folks volunteer a ton more time than most participants do at the event itself. Let’s try this for a year, see if it in fact does fix the problem during the event, and listen to all opinions at the end of this year’s event to see if the solution did in fact work for all involved.
because it is smart
They deserve it!
Medics are the most important part of any team that has them.

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Do you have an alternate solution to the problem of finding qualified medical staff for burn nights?

These answers fell into 7 broad categories. Click on each category to expand.

[expand title=”1. No”]

Forty-one respondents indicated that they did not have a better solution. The answers that included additional comments beyond “no” or “nope” are included below.

No – we all have to pay…even death is not free ~
No filling shifts on the big party nights is never going to be easy
No this sounds like a great one. 🙂
No, but if we get that data above, I’d likely support someone running a kickstarter to raise the funds to *gift* BAMF members free tickets. That puts it back in the hands of the community, and avoids a bad precedent being set by the board.I also would like to see a poll (and results) to figure out who else would be willing to volunteer if other measures, such as reduced shift lengths, were taken.
no, I vote for the 20 comped tickets
No. I think gift tickets are the way to go.
Not a good one.
Not better than Bastion’s and the board’s, no.
Not for this year specifically, but spreading the word outside the current Apogaea community…maybe we can recruit people who would be willing to volunteer but are unaware of the event and what it’s all about.
Not for this year, but growth needs to slow down
Not in the short term, but maybe bastion needs an assistant on ignition to help him manage some of the rest-of-the-year stuff, volunteer recriutment, etc
Not one I approve of.
I know that the BAMF lead is doing all he can to get shifts filled.
I only wish
I’d rather use internal volunteers than hire emts
Sadly no. I do appreciate the blog post which laid out our other options tho.
This is a perfect solution.
This solution works for me.
Without a time machine, I do not at this time

[/expand]
[expand title = “2. Shorter Shifts”]

Make it easier to help – Change shifts to be 2 times 4hrs, instead of 1 times 8. Burn night maybe a different story. It just might be easier to have 1 8hr shift that night.
3. Make shifts shorter. Eight hours is a big commit. Especially on the burn nights. Have we thought of fours? Or maybe fours as the event progresses and it gets busier (and more interesting to be having fun at!). Say, eight hour shifts the first few days then fours Friday till the end.
Maybe 6 hour shifts instead of the 12 if you can get coverage and people step up.
Provided enhanced services at the event for, BAMF, ranger leads, etc to make the event more appealing to highly qualified volunteers. Build outreach to appropriate community members around the country and provide discounted tickets like ignition.
Reserved 1/2 Priced Tickets for the department. Make the shifts shorter then 12 hours
Shorten shifts so people can enjoy part of those evening without being tied down for a whole night.
Shorter shifts with better shift timing?

[/expand]
[expand title=”3. Improve BAMF recruitment in other ways”]

Increase outreach to those with the right qualifications. There are number of people that have said that they are interested and they were not contacted until the last minute.* If Bastion needs help and is willing to take on a “lieutenant” to help with co-ordination and outreach, then let’s help him out.
Stop looking for just EMT’s, CPR is the minimum qualification
– Start recruiting year round instead of 2 months before the event
– Respond to all email requests of people wanting to volunteer for BAMF
– Early access to ticket sales following year
1/2 price tickets, year round recruitment, short shifts for lite level volunteers, longer for med professionals
A travel reimbursement up to the price of the ticket.
Actually ask the community to help?
All departments have a recruiting challenge, and I understood that BAMF is a special case with regard to qualifications. I do not see BAMF making the extra effort that other departments do for the purposes of recruiting. Some suggestions are:1) Having a BAMF team dedicated to recruitment (this team does not need medical certs) who can onboard potential candidates
2) Expand the recruiting drive year round
3) Shorten BAMF shifts for burn nights only
4) Provide other incentives besides free tickets to work burn nights (are free tickets really the only solution?)
Ask for volunteers like everyone else
Burn night swag only people who work the burns get. Free ticket if its an extra shift. 75% off tickets for burn night. Guaranteed tickets is a good enough incentive. I feel like people should pay something.
Creative solutions should of course be explored – more outreach/promotion, better communication about what is needed for volunteers here, BAMF could use a bit of PR help I think. There is a lack of info as to what exactly their needs are (what skills, how to get it, length of shifts, making it publicly visible and a celebrated position). With more attention they may be able to better recruit, in fact this very public discussion is probably helping.There’s more than one way to skin a cat and perhaps reworking shift coverage and length, utilizing more of the less-skilled staff (that there are more of) on more shifts with more skilled staff in a less active/back up role would also help balance need and resources.
I obviously lack the nitty gritty details of what’s already been tried or not, but a combination of solutions/ideas can work together to solve the issue….and it shouldn’t be just free tickets or nothing…sounds like several things need to happen here. And likely a combination of multiple things will lead to the best outcome.
Empower a lot of people to help with recruiting. I think we’ve got to exhaust the resources in our community by asking for help from everyone. Empowering a wide base of support to be helpful can have incredible results.
Guaranteed 1/2 price tickets. Those who need to be convinced to attend do get to participate in our cool event.
Has the Apo community been asked for medical volunteers?
Have requests been put out in the medical community?
Has there been adequate energy spent to bring in people for these positions? What are the challenges being faced to not have an adequate number of people. I personally know people involved in this group eager to bring in others-
In all, BAMF should be more public and active within the community. And I do not mean, offering services at parties – that’s just taking advantage of your health care providers. Care Givers live to give their time doing fun things. We should have BAMF members help with the Effigy and Temple Build – and be recognized for their efforts. BAMF can have a trailer painting party with the Rangers. Help build your team with yearly activities and show the public that BAMF and Rangers are active in the community. That way volunteers can feel vested and want to participate. Recruitment would be easier. Recruitment should be a year long venture assisted by the Apo Board.
It’s a cool idea to offer training a for people who would like to meet your required knowlage level for medical attention. If you don’t offer one or want to pay, direct apogaeans to places to do offer a quick certification. Good info for burners to know regardless.
Make sure the community doesn’t already have these resources. Sign up volunteers as soon as they are interested, don’t wait for volunteer database to open.
Since there has been no recruiting drive to date I see no problem. If after the community gets a chance to fail we can look at multiple solutions then. But ask first
Some inspired polling of the community would do. Put as much work into solving the problem as you did into your propaganda infographic and see what happens. problem solved.
urge bamf to recruit. find cool swag. look for leadership for bamf that will have a longer vision than just a few weeks out from the event.
volunteers
What about more heavily discounted tickets in combination with shorter shifts?
Year round recruitment, lightening the load of the Bamf lead by giving him an assistant. Its going to be difficult fur any busy medical professional to spend the amount of time necessary to get this job done. Also, telemetry could be proactive and announce volunteers for the lead. Also, an assistant can verify all of cprs and licenses for all prospective volunteers. There is no reason that the lead should have to do that in addition to everything else.
Yes – there are *lots* of ways. Including better culture within BAMF. If it’s all about “me me me”, it will only get worse every year. If it’s about being part of something special giving back, it can work. Worst case – there are lots of outside agencies we can hire if BAMF is just too disfunctional to get real volunteers, especially if it’s just for a couple of shifts where they all want to go party instead.
Yes, reach out to the community. We are here. We are listening. When you have volunteers saying that they sent a request to volunteer and never got a response… Hear that too. If you keep hearing the same story, listen. And think critically about what that means. You are being asked to treat one group of volunteers as more worthy than other volunteers. Think about how that might feel as a volunteer. You are here to serve the community, with love. Throwing money at the problem is one solution, but not the right one for the community. We can do better.
Yes! Get the message out! It’s been almost a year since last Apo and this is the first the Community is hearing of the problem? How about a coordinated volunteer drive and networking among medical professionals?

[/expand]
[expand title=”4. Slow event growth”]

Grow the event only at a rate that ALL parts of the volunteer organization can support. Yes, most everywhere else was overstaffed, but BAMF was not last year.
don’t grow the event faster than the volunteer base. if you want to grow the event, do a better job of volunteer recruitment. if you get to the point you have to give away tickets, or hire outside help, you have already destroyed the spirit of the event. you are treading down a slippery slope. seeing the event governed in this reckless manner is one of the reasons i am leaving the event this year, and if i continue to see this management philosophy, i won’t be returning again.
I’d rather give BAMF limited free tickets than hire outside help, but perhaps our burn has grown too rapidly…
Stop growing the event so fast! The fundamental problem is growing faster than our volunteer base can keep up with. The simplest solution, and the one that keeps to our ideals, is to grow slower!

[/expand]
[expand title=”5. Hire Outside Help”]

Rather than cancel Apo, hire outside help as a last resort.
hire the ambulance. no insurance problems and professional care.
I would rather see Apo hire paid medical workers to fill empty shifts. I understand the risk of more ambulance calls, but I believe that burner-friendly medics who understand our culture and will work within our guidelines can be found. While I understand that it’s key shifts, it’s still only a few shifts that will need to be augmented so the net potential of increased ambulance calls is also limited.
Just what you guys are saying, hiring EMT’s with an ambulance. But, it’s not very cost effective.
pay for ambulance
Pay for an ambulance.
See comment above. I’m not against hiring medical professionals either. I can afford to pay a higher ticket price, but I know we have a bunch in out community that wouldn’t agree with me.

[/expand]
[expand title=”6. Modification of the 20 comp tickets plan”]

A # less than 10. How did we get to 10?
Will 6 or 8 do?
give tickets, just not that many.
Suuuuper discounted tickets – like $5 so we can all still say that technically everyone bought a ticket.
The half price ticket idea for qualified BAMF volunteers is still a good one. It might be suggested that if you work one shift, you get half price. If you work two shifts, one of which is burn night, than you get the free ticket.

[/expand]
[expand title = “7. Crowdfunding/Community funding”]

I think that we should put it to the community to help fund the cost of the tickets necessary, at least partially for this year. I would be happy to help with a fundraiser for that reason as I would like Apogaea ticket money to continue to fund creative grants–even though mine was denied (wah wah wah)
I think there are members of the community that would happily ‘sponsor’ a ticket for BAMF personel. I would be willing to sponsor a single full price ticket for BAMF.

[/expand]
[expand title=”8. Other”]

Definitely have two burn nights. That way BAMF stalwarts can for sure get one of them.
Damn are you kidding me? Why would you think I know more than the individuals running BAMF.
I haven’t had time to think about it. Get Bug’s ass to the event!
I saw a number of good solutions talked about on the FB page discussionRespect and Appreciation.
The Board invokes or discourages communications in it’s own way. The term being through around “Red Shirts” – disposable volunteers, was a serious insult and is confusing amongst BAMF volunteers who wear red shirts.Why is a Fed Ex trucker in charge of communications with Medical Services and why is he limiting BAMF’s ability to improve relationships with Park County? Why not back your volunteers? The land owner has offered to assist BAMF with these communications. Why is the board limiting communications with the landowner?
People should take better care of themselves. Radical Self Reliance.
Rent-a-Midget EMT; carry in backpacks.
Safety third, radical self reliance, etc

[/expand]

Do you have any other burning thoughts about providing complimentary BAMF tickets?

[expand title = “View Responses”]

apo has traditionally required a ticket purchase from every attendee, even board members. to step beyond that and create an elitist group that gets exclusive access to tickets is wrong. dozens of our community members gift their expertise, talents that meet or exceed some of those bamf uses. enormous numbers of workers spend more time on work benefitting apo than those few hours bamf works (even counting certification hours).bad management of manpower does not rate taking those funds from the community, or awarding those tickets to a few.I was in years past a med volunteer, but will no longer after seeing such mismanagement.
As a bamf volunteer, obviously I want the greatest resources possible directed towards bamf, within fairness and reason. but i also acknowledge there are many others who put in a great deal of work year round without a free ticket. But, perhaps medical care is more important at the event itself than some other things people are doing. Tough judgement call.
as a member of Ignition I AM NOT OK WITH THIS
As a participant and as a BAMF volunteer I think the half priced tickets are an acceptable compromise. I have never liked the idea that some people get free tickets. Half price is a nice pat on the back for dedicated volunteers. I wouldn’t do the work for the price of the half priced ticket, but it makes me feel valued.The marketing of the shifts needs to start much, much earlier with clear cohesion on our direction for it. It is a real shame that this wasn’t ironed out months ago. For months I have had people emailing asking about how to sign up for shifts and we have to keep telling them that the process isn’t set yet. This should have been solidified long before tickets went on sale. Should have. Can’t go back. Let’s make the best (or least worst) decision possible at this point and move forward, quickly.
Asking for help after asking form money is bad examle of any principle you name.
BAMF deserves it!
BAMF is awesome, and is one of the few departments that more-or-less could deserve complimentary tickets. However, it would be preferable to not have to go that route. Grow slower!
Bastion rocks!
Better to do so than hire outsiders.
beware elitism
Can we ban everyone from getting BANF care that complains about this and doesn’t come up with a better idea? Or how about anyone that then thinks they should get a free ticket for some other volunteer shift? Yea, probably not. Had to ask.
can we do more to prevent Apo from being another damn Rave in the Woods? Can we not try to be different? Seems like half of Apo would be more confortanle at Electric Daisy Festival, and that’s too bad for Apo
Comping tickets for CRITICAL safety positions does not set a precedent.BAMF works incredibly hard for free and they should be compensated.
Do what we need to do to keep our community medical folks in charge of Apogea care.
Give them what they need….if BAMF says they need it, give it to them. Maple glazed bacon donuts for the overnight shift in the morning? Suuuuuure! Rainbow unicorn bandaids for minor booboos? You got it! More radios and carrier pigeons and other comm tools? No problemo! They wouldn’t ask if they didn’t need it. And if they need it, don’t nickle and dime them, make it happen, they cover a non-optional part of operations.Keep brainstorming other solutions and don’t put all your eggs in one basket….and If it doesn’t work this year then don’t repeat it…but if this is their solution to what is a really challenging problem, give it a shot!Big thanks to everyone who is putting in the time and effort to make this happen, especially our BAMF rockstars.
I am new to Apo so can’t comment based on direct experience at this event but I am a regular Sanctuary volunteer for Flipside and Myscheivia so I do have some knowledge of the situation
I believe that once a precedent is set for giving BAMF free tickets, it will never be reversed, just as we still give free tickets to the theme and ticket art winners.I also believe this is part of a larger failing of the board and of the community. We should be holding the line and growing the event only to the level that the community actually gets off their asses and supports it. To wit:- If nobody will submit ticket art without being offered a free ticket, then the ticket should be basic and boring. If that disappoints anyone, they can contribute something better themselves next time.- If nobody will suggest a theme without being offered a free ticket, then there is no theme.- If we can’t staff enough BAMF for a burn night shift without giving away tickets, then there will be no burn that night.- Just as we do with ticket revenue, we only grow the event in line with what the *previous* year’s volunteer base was. If we have trouble staffing burn nights, we don’t grow until that is no longer an issue.That might mean a need to work more on incentives, such as finally figuring out how to track those who do volunteer so that they can be rewarded with guaranteed (full-price) tickets the following year – which will hopefully result in an increasing percentage of volunteers year to year, and thus ability to justify growth.Yes, I’m a curmudgeon on this. I just feel there’s too much focus on making Apo a big party, and not enough on fostering responsibility, individual contribution, and self reliance. I hear members of the board I respect taking pride in how Apo is one of the biggest regionals – that’s an ego trip, and it’s not the metric by which we should be judging success.I’ve got the same concern about the creative grant program, by the way. I even heard an artist after the March board meeting comment that she’d have built and brought her art anyway, but as long as the board was giving away money for her to do so, she’d take it (and yes, she won a grant). In other words, the grant wasn’t enabling her to do anything she wouldn’t have done anyway. I’ve heard of others who would have brought art, but decided not when their art wasn’t picked for a grant – not because they couldn’t do it financially, but because they weren’t going to bust their ass for free if someone else was getting paid.These aren’t the kinds of incentives and values we should be fostering in our community. I’d rather attend a smaller event where everyone who shows up does so on the same terms, and the only art and events that happen are those that happen as a result of truly volunteered time and effort.And yeah, I feel the same way about reduced-price ignition tickets. I didn’t know they were reduced price when I signed up for ignition, and honestly would still prefer they weren’t. A guaranteed ticket in future years is one thing; it rewards actual work done, and can be revoked if that work doesn’t happen. But last I checked we still had positions not filled; is someone who signs up just to get a ticket really someone who will do a good job?That all said, I fully believe the case on the web page is presented in such a way that most members of the community will come out and support you in the decision you apparently want to make. If so, congratulations.Just be aware that not everyone supports the direction Apo is going, and every year we go on like this increases the chances that people who feel the way I do will leave the event. Maybe we’ll start a new event more in line with what we believe, or maybe we’ll just walk away from the party that passes for “community” and go do our own thing. Maybe you’ll notice and understand why those people left, maybe you won’t notice, or maybe you’ll take it personally. We’ll see.Bah, humbug.
I think discounted tickets such as those offered to Ignition is a great way to bring in support while still creating revenue for the event and the future of it.
I think it is a good thing that the Board opened it up to the community, however they should have decided to do this, and stated their intention to do this, much earlier on in the conversation. I am also curious about the quality of communication between the Board and BAMF. This is the 3rd or 4th year in a row I have heard about significant communication issues and this concerns me. I wonder if it is time to scrap the liaison model and try a different approach for BAMF/BOARD communication? There are a TON of resources in the form of people and communication protocols that COULD be far more effective than what has been taking place.
I think it should start happening. I think folks that volunteer a ton for the event, including critical shifts, should be thanked. I would love to see Apo take on the BM model and gift for the following years event. That way there is no concern about folks not earning the ticket, it is purely then a thank you and recognition of effort.
I think it’s a great idea to give complimentary BAMF tickets to medical volunteers
I think that this is an exceptional option as opposed to the presented alternative.
I think there are other branches of Apogaea that are equally deserving of FREE tickets. But Apogaea boasts that volunteers are the driving force. So, why aren’t there enough volunteers? Maybe that is a better question to ask…what would make people want to volunteer……for me, that desire faded years ago. I no longer volunteer and have no desire to. I do keep in contact with the event, board members and land owners to see what their thoughts are and how things are going. I am glad that many people are happy and this event continues….
I think you don’t need to give out that many…looking at the graph…maybe 5 the first night and 8 more the second.
I value quality medical care above maintaining idealism or saving money. This is the path to ensuring the event can continue in the future. One serious accident that creates bad press means an end to the event. I vote for the solution that can provide the best medical care and can most likely keep the event going … whatever you think that solution may be. I do wonder if there are really that many EMT trained folks within our community to cover our needs, free tickets or not. I plan on updating my first aid and CPR and volunteering for BAMF, but I realize that EMTs are what you are most lacking. Good luck!
I would support a BAMF fundraiser.
I’m disappointed the Apogaea board has grown the event’s population at a faster pace than our ability to staff it.It’s evident that many people, quite possibly the majority, are concerned about the precedent of giving BAMF free tickets. And I see little meaningful response to that concern. I have little doubt that this decision will have broader implications, such as contempt from other departments and the resulting lobbying for free tickets for other personnel.
I’m Ok with it as a last resort. Apo could also look at providing $10 tickets, or even $1 tickets, if it wants to avoid breaking the rule of free tickets.
If I had more qualification than I do, I would happily volunteer one night of sobriety to be there for those who end up pulling a stupid.
If they are only doing one shift that should not qualify for a free ticket
If we are going to play as wildly as we do, we need to make sure we are well taken care of… by our own crew.
In addition the volunteers who get the tickets must perform the Truffle Shuffle.
It just opens up a weird little door. They are getting a free ticket for working a ?8? hour shift? Many volunteers work multiple days and get no free ticket. I’m not sure I agree that their time is SO MUCH MORE VALUABLE that others.Sure they do lots of training but that’s required by their certification which they voluntarily choose to have. They would be required to complete that training to maintain their certifications regardless if they are going to Apogaea or not.Lastly, I am skeptical of how the data was presented. It seems to show unequivocally a very large increase in medical incidents based on the increase of ambulance calls between 2012 and 2013. Going from 1 incident to 3 incidents IS NOT THAT SIGNIFICANT! It could easily be a fluke that 2 more people were seriously hurt rather than indicative of a larger trend. And considering the new safety requirements for art and installations that people can bring, this amount of hurt will be much more difficult to archive.Besides, there is directly contradictory data that shows a decrease in medical events between 2012 and 2013 that is more meaning full than 2 people.I think it’s essential that we have our own medical staff but now we’re going from a volunteer run operation to a partially paid operation.. I just think it opens a weird door where more and more people will be unhappy with mearly volunteering when ‘those guys’ get free tickets for their services..
It will poison the volunteer / participant culture. Who else “has done enough to deserve” tickets? The Board? DPW? Etc. – anyone can claim “it’s hard to find volunteers”. What have they done to promote a culture of gifting within the department? Find better leadership if you need to, but there are hundreds of people who put a lot into the event, and many DJs expect to get in free. Don’t go there.
It’s a great idea. I don’t even know why y’all are questioning it.
It’s unfortunate that we have come to needing extra tickets. There are many things that you could offer to recruit more: professional insurance for the event, guarantee of counsel and legal protection for volunteers, especially trained medical volunteers who do not fall under the good Samaritan laws. I know that i have been threatened with a law suit by one of your daily leads, she also threatened my future nursing career. Even when I am a nurse practitioner, I will never volunteer for any event where she is involved. Medical professionals are under a lot more liability. That’s probably why all of the docs and nurses inn the community don’t pitch in. Its one of the few positions where your professional life can be VERY deeply impacted. There needs to be protection available safe guard folks careers.
just doooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeet. don’t ask permission, just do it!
listen to the thunder.
Make sure that BAMF is staffed. Doesn’t matter if we have to give free tickets or free handjobs……..BAMF is super important!!
Maybe these volunteers are required a bit more than 1 burn night shift? Maybe one burn night and one other?
No fre tickets for any reason
no free tickets
No, except perhaps instead of giving tickets to the winners of contest such as the ticket and theme, perhaps give them 1/2 price tickets.
no, the 20 comped tickets is reasonable for the amount of training and work they do
No. They deserve it as well as many others.
Nope do it. People get mad crazy there burn nights.Having a harm reduction non profit like dance safe there who has medically trained people may help especially at night. Karma wants to bring this year a few people from dance safe to see how may fit in.
Not really, other than if they also work a regular shift.
Once you give free tickets, they will be expected every year. It will forever change the fabric of the event.
Perhaps to avoid this issue next year, the tickets could be paid for as a budget item in the BAMF budget, so we don’t need to ask!
Safety First. It is a great fear of mine that someone will die one day.
Safety third! I know y’all will make a good decision with the best for our community in mind!
Support the experienced people that have worked the event. They know what they are doing.
The board is responsible for this shit working. They need to make the right call in their opinion, based on the facts, bylaws, and our principles, and manage the consequences.
The opportunity for a discounted, guaranteed ticket as option before free.
These are general thoughts of things that can be done to help reduce the stress on BAMF:* Increase the information available as to what the qualifications are. Create a page of links for courses people can take to get qualified.* Link volunteering to tickets. Volunteers from the previous year get first look at tickets.* Create a “go/no go” “red light/green light” dependency between volunteer needs and size/duration of the event. BAMF/gate/ranger leads need to be consulted in advance as to whether they feel they have the numbers to cover any expansion of the event.
These tickets need to go to both qualified EMT’s (or above) and experienced Fire fighters. I feel that past staff has done an excellent job but as the attendnce grows bigger, so does the potential for liability. You can’t have too many qualified people. Let’s encourage participation by more qualified staff than needed in past years plus a few extra just in case. “Apogaea safety is no accident”.
They rock but the board is an evil entity trying to enslave human kind.
They work hard, and it is certainly better than paying outside sources. Look at what TTITD does. They largely subsidize the costs for medical volunteers.
This could set a precedent, so we must tread carefully. I appreciate that Bastion and the BOD is reaching out to the community for their thoughts.I’m curious, as I’m relatively new to the community: what principle(s) guide the idea that we can’t offer ‘free tickets?
This definitely needs to be reevaluated on a yearly basis….I think it’s a great solution for this year (I think it’s smart to anticipate a higher need with the additional burn night) but it doesn’t seem fair to commit to donating tickets to BAMF every year without considering the future needs of other volunteer departments as well.
This does not meet the principles.
This goes against everything Apogaea was built on. Do not destroy the community
This is a slippery slope. Using a free ticket to bring in Burners to take shifts steps over the line of the values of our community as I see them. In future years what will keep the BOD from create additional classes of volunteers that need a free ticket. If we are growing our event faster than our volunteer base can manage the event, we are growing our event to quickly. If growth is a desire of the community then we as the community should cover the costs of all our needed outside services from additional toilets to to medical staff.
this is wrong to do.
We have never provided free tickets to volunteers in the past. I am worried about the erosion of our culture in the name of growing as quickly and large as possible. If we can’t get volunteers, we don’t need to be this big.
Who decides who gets these tickets. There is no third party to act as a arbitrator for these decisions.
Why is it we need ten people on each burn night? And each night needs ten brand-new people? Could some of the first night also work the second night (especially if you’re giving them a free ticket)? Are you sure you’d find twenty EMT-qualified Burners who really want to go to Apo but wouldn’t go just because they don’t get free tickets? Are all twenty giftees expected to be EMT-qualified? Or are some of the ten the “Fire” part of BAMF, who patrol around the burn looking for stray sparks and embers (no medical training necessary)?
Wish I could see info graphic. Isn’t coming up on my device
Yes. BAMF is one of the things I’m proudest of when I talk about Apogaea. We can do real grownup stuff like staff our own medical and safety and fire control with our own community members. While giving out free tickets to any group isn’t ideal for supporting the way I want Apogaea to feel, doing so on a temporary basis because of special needs related to planning difficulties makes sense. In principle, I do not approve of free tickets for any group at the event. In practice, this year it makes sense. All that said, in future years, extreme collaboration with our more grownup departments to produce realistic and sustainable growth policies is the way to go. As our community grows, we shouldn’t lose sight of what makes us special: we take care of ourselves, we don’t make some groups more special than others, and we participate in awesome experiences.
You only perpetuate the problem into the future while setting the preedent of free tickets to solve staffing issues. Not a good precedent to set. Once set you will never lose it.
Your infographic is unabashedly biased, and skewed to try to rally the troops, instead of presenting info and letting people think for themselves. You also have a misspelling on the ambulance page. Medial instead of medical.

[/expand]

Additional questions for current and previous BAMF volunteers (23% of survey respondents)

What is your certification level?

Are you willing to work a burn night shift?

Do you have any other comments about this ticket proposal?

[expand title=”view responses”]

A bad solution for a bad problem. We need more support from the board instead of a patch that will fail.
Again, I personally don’t mind paying half price for my ticket as I has already planned to do so. If we need to address the inability to find enough qualified staff, than I endorse the free ticket incentive to fulfill that need.
As the BAMF Infrastructure Lead, I have some insight into the staffing issues, but as a non-medical volunteer, I’m out of the running for a free ticket, so the burn night ticket question doesn’t really apply to me.
Discounted or free tix help but aren’t necessary I do it b/c I feel not doing it is a disservice to my community & they need more highly skilled festival medicine experienced of experienced people which I am. Much love.
I don’t mind working burn night as long as I’m allowed proper rest to safely provide care buy the timing and length of the shift.
I dont know If I will have time to get my CPR renewed… 🙁
I marked “No, I am not willing to work a burn night shift” and while that is probably true, I probably fall more into a category not listed i.e. I am likely not willing to work a burn night shift. It may depend to some degree on what’s going on with my theme camp on those nights and how desperate Bastion is. 😉
I stopped working BAMF because of the longer shifts. I would way rather work two 4 hour shifts, then one 8 hour.
I think complimentary tickets would be great but the discounted rate is also quite fair
I volunteered for a fire lead shift last year
I worked a burn night last year, so I’m definitely not working one this year, as one bennie of working a burn is choice pick of shift for next year. However, for a free ticket, I would consider working a burn night shift every year, instead of only every 2 to 3 years.
I’m not volunteering with BAMF this year, but otherwise would have volunteered for a burn night shift. My decision in no way reflects any negative experience volunteering with BAMF in that past; it was purely a selfish decision to enjoy myself a little bit more and avoid burn out.
it’s a symptom of a sickness caused by irresponsible event growth and management.
Last year was my first year volunteering with BAMF. I didn’t really know how big of a problem it is to fill the burn night position until this week. I would be willing to support BAMF on the 2nd burn night if it were necessary. I would hesitate out of my own physical health concerns and out of fear that those shifts are above my level of training. If it is needed I can try to take precautions to be physically ready by planning and preparing myself throughout the week, ie taking it easy and not over exerting myself (in order to be positively capable of being able to keep my commitment and performing my duties). I would also need to know that I can absolutely trust the lead and expert to help me if I became overwhelmed.
One of the reasons why I say yes to a free ticket as CPR cert only is because shit can happen when everyone else is attending to patients. I hope to science this doesn’t happen.
solve the issues endemic in that part of apogaea and you will solve all your problems
The “info graphic” here was some pretty heavy-handed propaganda. If your responses end up *not* overwhelmingly in favor, that should speak loudly. Only one side of the debate got to make a case, in livid future projection and supposition. This is a pretty flawed instrument – any reasonable minority “voting” against should be considered carefully.
The query about working burn night is too limited. I’d like to answer that I would be willing every other Apo or so. In fact, I would this Apo, but damitalltohell a friend is getting married Sunday and we have to leave NLT that morning.
This is not fair to other volunteers

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